tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post2029338581700997562..comments2023-10-31T10:59:03.023-04:00Comments on INKSPOT Crime Fiction Blog | A Place for Mystery, Mayhem, Writing and Life: The Importance of a Good Critique GroupLinda O. Johnstonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01512430135042480450noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-84150007914700409942012-02-05T23:12:47.831-05:002012-02-05T23:12:47.831-05:00I was once in an online critique group on AOL ten ...I was once in an online critique group on AOL ten years ago and received some good feedback, although some was downright silly from unpublished writers, such as a comment that I was prejudice when I wrote that tall women seemed to gravitate to one another (which is true). Another said that I should clean up my character's grammar. (They were uneducted farmers.) So I agree that you have to choose your critique partners carefully.Jean Henry Meadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08146960738692672013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-29364125919216923242012-02-04T11:40:09.658-05:002012-02-04T11:40:09.658-05:00Hi Heidi,
Thanks for your comment.
Hi Ann,
Those ...Hi Heidi,<br />Thanks for your comment.<br /><br />Hi Ann,<br />Those are all great tips for critique groups. Yes, definitely submit chapters ahead of time and only discuss the big issues in the meetings.Beth Groundwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13999372882748655834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-82212123561860692822012-02-04T01:13:15.773-05:002012-02-04T01:13:15.773-05:00My critique group started in 2000 and it's bee...My critique group started in 2000 and it's been invaluable. Great post and excellent comments. A few other suggestions: <br /><br />No reading aloud. It's too slow and most of our readers are, well, readers. Submit chapters by email in advance & print them.<br /><br />Don't discuss line edits (typos, minor inconsistencies). Just mark up the paper copy. Use group time for the big issues of plot, character, & pacing.<br /><br />Support each other. Share publishing info. Celebrate successes!Ann Littlewoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08646388677233865578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-77996595930461595852012-02-03T15:44:50.867-05:002012-02-03T15:44:50.867-05:00I agree. I would not be where I am today if it wer...I agree. I would not be where I am today if it weren't for my critique groups!Heidiwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02593338979995203659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-89455047861352542082012-02-03T13:17:50.220-05:002012-02-03T13:17:50.220-05:00Hi Mitzi,
Yes, a bad critique group populated with...Hi Mitzi,<br />Yes, a bad critique group populated with poison personalities or people with their own agenda unrelated to the group goal of helping every manuscript get published can be a real de-motivator. The best thing to do is leave the group as soon as possible and find another one that's more supportive.<br /><br />Hi Warren,<br />Yes, a trial period is very important for both sides, the new writer coming in, and the existing group members. It should be made very clear upfront how long the trial period is, and that permanent group membership is contingent on a group vote of acceptance and the new member's acceptance of the group.<br /><br />Hi NC,<br />Since I moved to Breckenridge in December, I've been Skyping in to my Colorado Springs critique group's meetings. It's not as ideal as meeting with them in person, but, as you point out, being able to brainstorm in real-time with the group can result in some really creative solutions to problems.<br /><br />Thanks, Pat, for your comment. Your group must be a good one, because your books are so good. :)Beth Groundwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13999372882748655834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-33245793704260216152012-02-03T12:19:48.867-05:002012-02-03T12:19:48.867-05:00Well said, Beth. My group formed at the end of 200...Well said, Beth. My group formed at the end of 2003 from a novel-writing class (and the instructor of that class is now one of our members). I can't imagine trying to write without a good critique group.Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-26630627359327449992012-02-03T11:57:04.789-05:002012-02-03T11:57:04.789-05:00The critique group I'm in has members who can&...The critique group I'm in has members who can't drive in during the winter, so they join us via video Skype. This way we can all see and hear each other. It's important for each member to hear others' comments - I find the most useful criticism evolves during discussion of sticky points in a chapter - something you'd never get in a one-on-one critique. <br />I would never submit part of an unfinished work to my group, because to give the story shape, I have to know how it ends. And if critiquers get bogged down in badly constructed sentences they may miss the big-picture problems. I think that the more finished/polished your work is, the more useful others' critiques will be.<br />Writers who go it alone with no critiquing are deluding themselves. We can all write better, and others' perspective is essential.NC Weilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00231254589899855407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-19483893384940748202012-02-03T11:29:21.158-05:002012-02-03T11:29:21.158-05:00I think you need to attend a group for a few times...I think you need to attend a group for a few times before deciding if it fits your needs. Some groups offer mostly support for writing and little critiquing which is fine if that's what you need. Others are more critical which require members to have a thicker skin. My favorite story about a critique group was at the first meeting of a new group one member agreed to read her work as long as no one said anything to her afterward, The group did not have a second meeting.Warren Bullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789270258599769915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-54104357354257042002012-02-03T10:42:22.431-05:002012-02-03T10:42:22.431-05:00I was in a critique group many years ago and could...I was in a critique group many years ago and couldn't keep to the schedule because of having to travel for work. No one was willing to critique by email so I dropped out. I also didn't like that people critiqued but had nothing they'd written - I was never reading their work - they had none.<br />Not a pleasant experience.<br />First you have to trust them and not feel they're trying to sabotage you.<br />I know I sound paranoid but I found out later that it was happening.Mitzihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15429148644855477143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-21072357643749820042012-02-03T10:17:54.720-05:002012-02-03T10:17:54.720-05:00I've been in a number of groups over the years...I've been in a number of groups over the years and learned a lot from all of them. For the last few years I've relied on two very trusted readers who are thorough and honest. They've really pushed me to be a better writer. Thanks for a solid thoughtful post.Susan Oleksiwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02693057997469296068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-61245254917646183152012-02-02T23:14:53.005-05:002012-02-02T23:14:53.005-05:00LOL, thanks, Bad Mom! I hope WICKED EDDIES will be...LOL, thanks, Bad Mom! I hope WICKED EDDIES will be a wickedly fun read. ;-)Beth Groundwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13999372882748655834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-74808233535113149632012-02-02T22:34:10.162-05:002012-02-02T22:34:10.162-05:00Hi Beth. I don't have a critique group, per se...Hi Beth. I don't have a critique group, per se, but a few trusty first readers. I love them! Know what else I love?? The title of your next book!The Bad Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13133964988947451289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-5355444459803073502012-02-02T16:51:28.412-05:002012-02-02T16:51:28.412-05:00Hi GB,
Yes, I think everyone who participates in a...Hi GB,<br />Yes, I think everyone who participates in a critique group becomes a better self-editor. You first catch various kinds of errors in other people's work, then you become better at spotting them in your own.<br /><br />Hi Gloria,<br />I agree that good critique partners are worth their weight in gold, and the Guppies chapter of SinC is a great place to find compatible critique partners.Beth Groundwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13999372882748655834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-55700160730940923062012-02-02T16:48:54.010-05:002012-02-02T16:48:54.010-05:00Hi Velda,
I agree that you shouldn't waste the...Hi Velda,<br />I agree that you shouldn't waste the talents of your fellow writers in a critique group on looking at your first draft. NO ONE sees my first drafts other than myself! I always do a lot of editing on my own before submitting a chapter to critique group.<br /><br />Hi Robin,<br />I agree that a critique group has to be very focused and to set goals. We limit our "social time" to 15 minutes at the start of a meeting and about 5-10 at the end. The rest of the time is spent reviewing chapters. And, if someone hasn't submitted a chapter for awhile, the rest of us ask, "what's up?" Socializing is for other occasions.Beth Groundwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13999372882748655834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-89766484563620791612012-02-02T16:44:47.689-05:002012-02-02T16:44:47.689-05:00Hi Terry,
Yes, it's usually best for the one w...Hi Terry,<br />Yes, it's usually best for the one who is being critiqued to keep their mouth shut, unless they don't understand a critique and need to ask a question. The decision of what advice to take or ignore is always the writer's to make, and the writer doesn't have to reveal what that decision is to the group.<br /><br />Hi Betsy,<br />Thanks for weighing in, and for giving me a chance to put in a plug for the Guppies (for "the great unpublished") chapter of Sisters in Crime, one of the very best place for aspiring mystery authors to find help, information and support. Here's the website: http://www.sinc-guppies.org/Beth Groundwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13999372882748655834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-35223248521928449242012-02-02T15:50:28.413-05:002012-02-02T15:50:28.413-05:00There are only three of us in my Guppy critique gr...There are only three of us in my Guppy critique group, but they have been so important to my writing these past two plus years -much more important than my local writers group. I always value their comments and advice.Gloria Aldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13581719606924364447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-5347031019006361692012-02-02T12:23:32.086-05:002012-02-02T12:23:32.086-05:00I, too, belong to a critique group. We write varia...I, too, belong to a critique group. We write variations of mysteries and several other genres, but we are similar in age, so we see things in a similar light. We did find younger folks didn't care about grammar or plot or most things we thought important. But the best thing about the group, I have become far better at editing my own work, so the early drafts are much tighter.GBPoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12190573764848658894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-70989171854553696022012-02-02T12:02:04.770-05:002012-02-02T12:02:04.770-05:00I've been in several critique groups, but find...I've been in several critique groups, but find that I prefer one or two critique partners rather than a group. They tend to be too social and lose focus quickly. <br /><br />Regardless of how you get critiqued, I agree that it's important to publishable writing.Robin Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16373722202559066388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-17552141693534983152012-02-02T11:44:01.943-05:002012-02-02T11:44:01.943-05:00As a member and co founder of a large critique gro...As a member and co founder of a large critique group that's been active for 25+ years, I agree with your post. Although we prefer to see the last draft, we will help with first drafts if members request that.<br />When members of a group begin to be published, then it's a sign the group is working.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-87271222814451415242012-02-02T10:43:12.007-05:002012-02-02T10:43:12.007-05:00Hi Beth - I couldn't agree more with your advi...Hi Beth - I couldn't agree more with your advice to be at least half way through your first draft before submitting chapters for critique. I know from personal experience that I can be too much of a perfectionist when it comes to submitting stuff for critique. So it's easy for me to get derailed by trying to make each chapter perfect instead of just trying to get it all down on paper. And as critique group coordinator for the Guppies (SinC's online chapter) I know a lot of Guppies still working on first drafts who enthusiastically join a critique group but soon get overwhelmed by the all the submitting, editing and resubmitting.Betsy Bitnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14050073543139020816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-21381844758273911022012-02-02T10:10:24.917-05:002012-02-02T10:10:24.917-05:00Hi Beth, Critique is a valuable tool for a writer,...Hi Beth, Critique is a valuable tool for a writer, published or not. But never forget it's all subjective. Sometimes critiquers don't agree with each other. These disagreements can be counter productive, so don't critique the critiquer. And if you're being critiqued, take what works for you and discard what doesn't. Don't bring the same material back twice, less your book becomes the product of the group and not your own work. That 'mud' you're talking about gets very deep and sticky. Best of luck with Cataract Canyon.Terry Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07530609146114469375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-19586324518147561992012-02-02T09:40:01.443-05:002012-02-02T09:40:01.443-05:00Yes, Marian, it is important for both the critique...Yes, Marian, it is important for both the critiquer and the writer to remember that it's the product that's being critiqued, not the person.Beth Groundwaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13999372882748655834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3529128955266044151.post-24740130126948188162012-02-02T09:10:44.213-05:002012-02-02T09:10:44.213-05:00I'm also a member of a long-running critique g...I'm also a member of a long-running critique group, <a href="http://southernindianawriters.com" rel="nofollow">The Southern Indiana Writers</a>. All your points are excellent, and I'm happy to say our group is one of the good ones. Our two primary guides are: 1) Tell us how thorough a critique you want, from "Does this work" to "line edits" 2) Critique the writing, not the writer.<br /><br />Marian Allen<br /><a href="http://MarianAllen.com" rel="nofollow">Fantasies, mysteries, comedies, recipes</a>Marian Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15842321321484056422noreply@blogger.com